JM: Great to sit down Chris, I’m really looking forward to hearing your story so why don’t we start with you telling me a little bit about your background upbringing and family life?

CT: Hi Joe, sure,  I guess I come from a fairly volatile household, my mum died when I was quite young, my dad had a lot of mental health problems so I ended up in foster care when I was nine till I was fifteen. Although there was a lot going on in my younger years I think there were a lot of pros and cons to being in foster care.

 When you are a teenager you can be a bit of a ‘tear away’ at least in my case and the benefit of foster care is putting you in a functioning adult environment and that kind of drives you and makes you look at how things should be done in terms of being in a normal home setting.

I ended up moving in with a very nice family and looking back now, it was a very stable environment for me, however I was so used to being in unstable environments that I found a stable environment a bit abnormal. I just wasn't used to people being nice to me and talking to me like an adult. 

JM: What is the movement like in foster care, in those 6 years how many times did you move?

CT: I only moved once, I was very fortunate that was the case for me because I was quite challenging as a kid. I’ve come across other people who were in foster care and they moved around an awful lot. My foster parents were thankfully really patient with me at least until I was fifteen and then it was time for me to go! 

JM: So you’ve turned fifteen, you are turning into a young man and as you say becoming a bit challenging and looking for pastures new, why the military?

CT: So I was given a flat when I was seventeen by my local council and I wasn’t coping well with that level of responsibility. Things like not paying my bills was becoming a habit and my social worker at the time actually mentioned joining the military. Initially I was completely against it but she must have planted the thought in my mind because I actually thought about it  and eventually I went to an army recruiting office in Blackheath and joined. 

To be honest if I could meet my social worker again I would really thank her. Her suggestion changed my life. 

JM: Awww, that's really nice to hear. 

CT: Yes, She planted a seed and if not for her I just won’t have thought about joining or the army.

JM: And what did your friends and extended family think about you wanting to join the military at the time?

CT: I’d say my family were probably relieved to some extent, but they weren’t completely convinced either. My grandad  had been in the military many years ago so that helped but no one really knew what I was getting myself into and that made them a bit nervous. 

My friends were much more worried, I was quite impulsive at the time and I think they thought I had just woken up one morning and decided to join the army!

JM: And can you tell us about the first few years in the Army and what you took away from it?

CT: I’d say what I learnt in my first few years was summed up in the first few weeks and It really was as quick as that. I’d come from a very undisciplined environment and it was every man for himself. There was no discipline or authority in my life, it was either my way or the highway and I very quickly realised that attitude wasn’t going to fly in the army. I tried it on a few times but I was very quickly shot down and I began to understand the seriousness of the army.

There is a structure there (the army) and it will be followed, it's not a pick and choose situation you know. In those early years you go through basic training, I think it was about seven months at the time and then I moved to Cyprus for a year and got on with it. 

That  sense of discipline, sense of structure and family was really my major takeaway and interestingly a lot of the friends I made in the army were from a similar background to me and that gave me a strong sense of purpose and connection.

JM: And do you still stay in touch with your friends from the military? 

CT: I think if I was to meet any of them out of the blue tomorrow it would be like we only left yesterday. The banter would still be there. You have such similar memories, these are people you do everything with, eating next to each other, sleeping next to each other and fighting next to each other, the good and the bad times connect you. Now I don’t see them as much these days but we stay connected with our whatsapp group. And when you meet someone from the military there is a connection, they just understand, it's not just the day to day of being a soldier but the lifestyle and culture of that environment that other military folk understand and that helps to bond.  

JM: OK and can I ask why did you leave the army, and what was the transition to civilian life like?

CT: Good question, so my first memory in relation to leaving is standing outside Buckingham Palace, on the boxes marching during the changing of the guards ceremony. 

I had ended up doing 2-3 years of public duty, which wasn’t what I signed up for really and I remember, on one of the boxes you could see the London Eye and I would just stare at the people in their carriages thinking  ‘there has to be more to life than this’.

JM: Oh no, public duty wasn’t fulfilling then? 

CT: Not at all, I’ve got loads of tourists coming right up to my face and taking pictures trying to distract me and I just didn’t want to do that anymore. I just felt that I had so much more to give than what I was doing and I knew I had a certain level of ability and I just needed something different. To be fair there was a financial incentive as well, I knew that to earn what I wanted to earn, I’d probably need to have reached the rank of Colonel  and that was never going to happen!

In regards to the transition, firstly there’s always a lot of talk about ex-service guys being missed (not getting help to settle into civilian life) and I agree with that discussion but there is also very good support in place for the majority of military personnel.

JM: Ok, so how do you feel the government supported you in your transition.

CT: I think there is a lot of support in my opinion. Looking back on when I left, I had twelve months of support while I was deciding on what I want to do moving forward. That's a long time to continue being paid and I probably took it for granted but it was a real help. As a soldier a lot of stuff is laid on for you, it's still a hard job of course but your working week is planned for you, all you have to do is turn up. And then when you go to leave that gets turned on its head, suddenly you're completely in control of your environment  and I think soldiers struggle with that.Civilian life isn't laid on, you have to be thinking ahead and for yourself.

JM: That's great to hear, I think sometimes people feel servicemen and women are a bit abandoned when they leave active duty and it's really great to hear that you yourself have had a positive experience.

CT: To be fair I think location plays a big role. I moved to London,our nation's capital and there are so many more opportunities and helphere, that makes that transition a bit easier too. 

JM: Ok and what are you most proud of about your time in the Army? 

CT: I think its the fact that before the military, I’d never really done much, I hadn’t excelled in anything, so for me to actually have gone through military training, completing infantry training, that's not a weekend away full of laughs. And I don't mean just the physical aspects, which most people focus on, but it's also mentally challenging, really exhausting and you have to be mentally tough to survive that sort of environment and I’m proud I was a ble to do just that. 

People often ask me, if it's like the media depictions of the units like the SAS, you know who dares wins. Some of it no, but when you see people break, you really see them completely disintegrate and that scares you too… are you next maybe!?? So yes, surviving infantry training was probably my proudest accomplishment at that time.

JM: And moving on now to your second career, at the time did you feel that corporate recruiters give military folk a fair hearing, from being approached by people like me for roles in the City and when you have also applied directly? How have you found working with recruiters and have they been an advocate for military folk?

CT:  Yeah, so I’ve spoken to a fair few  recruiters over the years and I know someone who owns a ex-military recruitment firm and to be honest with you it's been kind of positive for me. Personally I tone it down when I speak to recruiters, I’ll say ‘yeah I was in the military’ but I didn’t go to University' and they usually come back to me to acknowledge that the army was my university in a way. So They've always put a positive spin on my military career reminding me that 6 years in the military will have given me transferable skills in the corporate world.

JM: Absolutely, so it sounds like you have had positive and open interactions with recruiters. Do you feel that you get approached as much as you non military colleagues when it comes to opportunities in the job market? 

CT: I’ve always been a big believer in taking ownership, so while there has been support and opportunities from time to time. If I am looking, I tend to lead my own search for opportunities and I do think it's an open market really. A lot of firms are simply looking to know if you can get the work done and provide the results they need. 

JM: Yes, simple as that really. 

CT: Your background still matters, whether it be academic or military but ultimately,the question remains can you get the job done and can you be relied on to not make excuses and get on with it.

JM: Definitely especially when it comes to roles like yours (Sales), in a competitive sector like real estate financing, I guess employers are looking for people who know how to get on with things, be a bit relentless about their call times and know how to talk to people right?  And of course military guys and girls are good at taking instructions without questioning, they just get on with the task at hand.

So over the years has then been a career disappointment since your transition that you would like to share with us? 

CT: So I actually wanted to be a police officer and I took the exams, passing them all. But I came shot with a few final tests and  I remember being absolutely devastated by it, in hindsight I realise that it just wasn’t meant to be. But that took me a few years to get over and when I think about it now I guess the lesson to take is that we don’t always get what we want and the trick is to pick yourself up and keep going. It can be sometimes too easy to sit and wallow in self pity, you just have to keep moving forward.

JM: Ok and can we move on to your current role now, can you tell us a little bit about Avamore Capital? 

CT:  So Avamore Capital is a real estate debt financing firm. In its simplest form we lend money to property developers and investors, so bridging finance essentially. There are only seventeen of us in the office, we are a bit of a family here and it's a growing business. It's been going for a little over 5 years now.

JM: And you are on the client relationship side of things at Avamore Capital, what are the expectations and objectives of your role?

CT: Well, I try to be pretty direct about stuff and so is Avamore, I work in sales and simply put sales is about numbers right? Now ultimately my role is about building and maintaining relationships but the underlying fact is the expectation is about closing  x amount of business per year. My goal and Avamore’s expectations is that I hit the targets that have been set internally. 

JM: And how has Avamore Capital supported and embolden you to achieve your life goals?

CT: I think the biggest thing for me that I have been allowed to do is be me. I’ve come from other places where that wasn’t the case. With managers telling me ‘you shouldnt be like that, you should be like this’. And you know what, I am here and I’m authentic. Now some people like it, some people don't like it.

JM: That's great to hear, I know that military folk along with sports people can be a little overbearing sometimes! Our jokes can be a bit off colour and it's always nice to be in an environment where you are allowed to be yourself, it's a credit to Avamore Capital. 

CT: Definitely and it's made me more confident when I am with clients because I don't have to pretend, I can be who I am and if the client doesn't like that, that's fine too.There aren't any negative repercussions at work. 

JM: In terms of current affairs can I ask how has COVID affected you  professionally?

CT:  So the world has changed through this right, everyone through some way, shape or form has been affected. Primarily with deal flow, even though I am constantly seeing on linkedin people shouting ‘business as usual’, I’m thinking to myself that's rubbish, I don't know what sectors they work in but it's not business as usual! 

Though things have picked up a bit now it's not quite pre covid levels and we are left wondering what the new ‘normal’ will look like?  Its been tough, I'm not going to lie, but  what gives me a bit of comfort is that everyone has been affected by this and we all just have to get the deals where we can now.

JM: Well at least you are working, I've had some very grim and difficult conversations with family people who have been made redundant so at least  you are working and that's a positive, and what does Armistice day mean to you?

CT: I’ll  keep this really simple, when I think of Armistice day the first word that always comes to me is ‘sacrifice’.  We live in a world now where we can go out, go on holidays, be who we want to be with every opportunity to achieve our dreams, but we need to look back to the sacrifices people before us have made for these freedoms. I mean the amount of people that have died for our Country? It's so sad but really humbling. So that in itself is massive and that is what it means to me, to acknowledge and respect the sacrifices people have made for me to be able to have my freedoms that I probably take for granted. 

JM: And finally is there a cause or social issue you care about when out of work that you are really passionate about and would like to share with us? 

CT: Young people, young disadvantaged people. I have worked in schools, I've done some voluntary work with various christies and local government councils. I want and enjoy speaking to young people. When I speak with them they have this presumption of me, they see me with a nice watch on or a smart shirt and make a call in their heads, that I might be a well to do ‘posh’ person or something similar. And then I give them my back story and they are taking back something they don't expect, right? 

So I think there are a lot of young people out there who just don't have the platform that some others have and if they did they would have such a better quality of life. These are young men and women who are talented and work hard but the opportunities have not reached them. Especially if they are in a bad home environment it can be tough to get out of that situation and opportunities then diminish. 

JM: Indeed, hopefully your story also sows a seed in their minds just as your care work did all those years ago. Chris, it's been a pleasure, thank you for your military career and thanks for speaking with me today.